9/7/2019 Gregtech Mod Crash
APIs should not be included in mods. If this isn't fixed soonish, I will have to remove railcraft from our modpack. It got outvoted in a GT vs. RC poll for the players (but only by 12%).
I really, REALLY don't want to go with the crowd on this one, but I can't very well sacrifice both.It should also be noted, loudly, that other mods may have the same problem (namely with Forestry). It's not exactly Greg's fault, because it only looks for APIs, which as many have said, Forge standards strictly forbid. Railcraft has made the mistake here by including other mods' APIs. That's a nice work-around, but is not acceptable.
Jul 17, 2013 Gregtech deliberately crashing client if TC installed. Discussion in 'General. They would be another mod adding recipes for an item which has a recipe in Gtech, which is what his real problem is. Items from various mods, including basic vanilla recipes, with no config options: Bad enough to make me stop using Gregtech. Including code to. Game Crashes when loading. Only mods are GregTech 5.09.32pre5(5.09.31), IC2 2.2.287 and GT V1.7.02.09. GT 1.7.1, however, works with both versions. And can you give me permission to repost GregTech Mod to MCBBS (A popular China Forum)?. In versions of GregTech 5.09.29 appeared clean room, when installing it in the unit.
Refusing to fix a fatal flaw is unethical coding, and still grounds for removal of a mod from the modpack. Bugs are one thing, disruptive features another. And I, as the admin, am not going to play the game of mod-shuffling every few updates because one of our many mods updated and the workarounds or fixes don't work anymore. Significantly more mods are broken by including the APIs than is reasonable. You can't ask every other modder to tread eggshells for your own nonstandard (and universally non-recommended) implementation.PS: We're prolly not re-adding thaumcraft after all. It seems to be unpopular.
This surprised me. You do realize it's not just Gregtech, but multiple mods, right?Deny it as much as you want, but what you've done is NOT standard, and highly unreccomended.We'll be removing Railcraft from the modpack next update, unless/until the disruptive design is remedied.
We have no choice. We can't sacrifice multiple mods just for RC.It's really common sense. If you make a change, and it causes problems/breaks other mods that worked fine before, and the community advises you to do differently, then you've clearly done something wrong. The fact it wasn't a problem UNTIL you did it is the most obvious supporting fact.
The 'Standards' are a general consensus in the modding community of things you simply don't do. This includes not purposely writing a mod or code which sabatoges another mod, not including APIs (as this causes duplication problems, is never necessary, wastes resources, complicates updating, adds overhead, and complicates coding for others), not stealing code or functionality, not wasting textures and item IDs, allowing items to have their IDs reconfigured to remedy ID conflicts (ditto for biomes), having configureable options where reasonable, etc.
There are also a few very simple common-sense things, such as how to use the OreDict to keep things clean, and some very loose definitions of 'overpowered' design that makes gaming trivial and unfulfilling.In particular, the minecraft forge forums have had a good deal of discussion where they do not condone the including of APIs for a number of reasons, some of which I don't even understand. But the simplest is what we have right here: It breaks mods. Not just mods like Gregtech that assume presence of a mod with it's API, but also problems in keeping APIs up to date, and that if even ONE other mod includes the API as well, it will break both. Two additional points i'd like to include is the player impact.
And the other is specifically, why does Railcraft even need the Thaumcraft API anyway? How is Railcraft interfacing with Thaumcraft in a way that requires an API at all? Why would a tech mod require Thaumcraft?Really, I don't need to keep arguing.
The points are clear. It cheapens the opinion of the mod, complicates it's utilization., and serves no realistic advantage. = Railcraft has always traditionally been one of the most compatible, 'easy, breezy' and well-liked mods because of it's fantastic ability to play with other mods.
To change that now is very hurtful, especially when it causes incompatability between Gregtech and Railcraft, as these have often been largely seen as partnership cooperative mods that work so well together, they might as well be peas in a mod. Why, CovertJaguar, why would you do this now?PS: One last note. Remember, it doesn't matter to users who is 'right' and who is 'wrong'.
They only pay attention to 'does it have these problems'. Please, don't start another inter-modder war. Do the right thing.
Examples of mods affected:BetterStorageGregtechBaublesThaumcraft-AddonsNoted, i'm told the vast majority of other mods don't use @API, and preferRemember that standards change. Programming in Java, i'm surprised you'd argue this. I can't count the number of functions, console switches, server configuration settings, and parameters that have been made obsolescent or outright removed just in the past half-decade.Final edit, then taking a chill pill and breaking: Sorry if i'm a bit rambly. Just that I can't live in a world where Thaumcraft, Gregtech, and Railcraft can't co-exist. And really, again, the community majority frowns on including APIs. They really do, i'm not saying this to make your life difficult. I'd pay you (not much, i'm broke!) to just make the fix and keep the peace.
$20 on the spot, more if needed. Railcraft has Thaumcraft integration and is planning more nor do I consider it a 'tech' mod. So the API is needed, because I like Thaumcraft.I know what a 'standard' is, I asking where 'this standard' is defined. Including API files does not break mods, it 'can' break mods if they use different versions. But that's still true even if they don't include the API. Does not change that fact.Many APIs are created to exist independent of their parent mods.
These mods 'require' that you include the API files in order to function. Most of the APIs I've ever used did and still do follow this standard. Didn't even exist until MC 1.7, and I was using the Thaumcraft API even before then with no issues, in exactly the same way I'm using it now.I am not a fan of Annotations, and in this case I just don't get the point of since it limits a lot of what you can do with an API and makes them harder to design. @API already solved the issue it is trying to solve, in a much more useful way. Additionally, has a ton nuances related to the class loader that are annoying to figure out. Like what happens if I need to call a method that doesn't exist, or if two APIs share a function?If Azanor intends the API to be used with, then please point me to where that is defined. I looked, but could not find any documentation at all.
Nothing changed in how I used the API from 1.6 to 1.7. The assumption would be that it should still work just fine (case in point, Railcraft won't crash if another mod is present which includes the Thaumcraft API). Why is the burden on me to change rather than on the mods that changed to remain compatible with the ones that didn't? All I know in regards to that is that Gregtech detects that another mod (so far, Railcraft is the one and only one that has this issue) is using Thaumcraft's API, and thus generates recipes for it (Thaumcraft allows transmutation of Stuff into Stuff, and Greg added support for some of his metals, like Zinc). Since Thaumcraft is not actually present in 1.7.10 (due to not being updated yet), it then crashes.Other mods that GT interfaces with don't have this issue if said mod is missing but another mod also interacts with said mod. Example: Forestry. It plays fine in any configuration.It's just Railcraft.
BTW, this was Greg's official response:Ahem, Forge Standards generally disallow direct inclusion of API Files, which are part of the File Structure of the originating Mod itself (unless said Mod states otherwise, or in case of Interfaces). Existence of API means that the Functionality is existing and working properly, not that the Mod is existing. That is what APIs are for, so that you can include the actual Functionality (and not just the Interfaces!) of said Program in your Program too, and unless you add your own fully functioning Thaumcraft alike Research System to the Game you have absolutely no Reason to include the non-Interface APIs for it.I am still waiting for further clarification on 'why this happens', because I don't care WHICH of you fixes this problem, or how, as long as it's fixed! Alright, i'll contact Greg since he's the only person I have strong communication with. out of the mods that are having Thaumcraft-related API shitfits.It still seems like it's the issue of including APIs, namely Thaumcraft's. I'm guessing it's due to some APIs being designed for it (Forestry) and some not.
Since Azanor hasn't responded this week. to me, i'm willing to bet that the latest Thaumcraft changes, if not always, hate including the API. Especially since Railcraft played perfectly fine until the moment the Thaumcraft API was included. The evidence is clear on that conclusion. Hence my begging and lobbying you to remove it and include a different method.
(Plus, my players are mortified by the new Thaumcraft changes, and have unilaterally, 12:1, voted on it's removal in 1.7.10. So the fix of 'just including it' to fix Railcraft is not a desireable option.). = Why are so many modders so aloof and impossible to speak with? The main Problem with including API Files is that as soon as another Mod does the same stupid thing they are 100% incompatible if they don't have the same Version.
Including API Files always causes incompatibility with other Mods, and that is the Main Problem. I don't include any API (well except for my own one ofcourse) and it isn't hard not to include them. Does my TC Research require API Files in my Mod? Does dynamically copying the Recipe System and Bee Scanning of Forestry over to my own Machines require API Files in my Mod? Does my Railcraft Rock Crusher Compatibility require API Files in my Mod? Does it crash if one of those Mods drastically changes it's API?
Nope.I always thought Railcraft was a Modular Mod, why doesn't it have a 'Thaumcraft' Module, which loads only if Thaumcrafts Functionality is installed, making the inclusion of APIs irrelevant?People hate Modders who include APIs for a good reason (and it isn't the good kind of hate), which is that it always crashes as soon as the API updates and another Mod tires to use the wrong API, forcing them to update what is causing even more crashes in other Mods due to API inclusion. Not to mention that it breaks nearly all Thaumcraft Addons, and those are essentially a Part of Thaumcraft. And from looking inside your Jar File I just noticed you include the full IC2 API, what is against the restrictions of the IC2 API which state 'only include the Interfaces you really need', and I see a ton of things you definetly don't need, I mean like everything.Player has edited my Thread regarding IC2 API usage here and he states that there is no need to ever ship the IC2 API, and guess what you do right now.Oh and my Thaumcraft Compat crashed due to some Research Categories not being existent, what is definetly a Bug on my Side and that is gonna get fixed.
But this doesn't mean that inclusion of API Files is still a good Idea.
Hello everybody!First things first, I apologize if my sentences aren't 100% correct - I don't speak english natively.I've come over a little problem near Riften. Everytime I travel (no fast-travel!) south/southwest of Rifton (especially near Goldenglow Estate) my Skyrim crashes to desktop without any message or whatsoever.Fast Traveling still works without any problems. The savestate that I am using is the one I played the most - up to 180 hours playtime (a detail that may be important to solve my problem?).The thing is - while I have my 60 mods activated, the sudden crashes near Riften occur every time.
The moment I deactivated all of them no crashes kicked me out of the game at all!I can't think of any mod in my list that particularly affects this area nor have I come over the CTD in any other area of Skyrim.When using BOSS, no conflicting mods were detected.Out of interest I started a whole new Character (with the same mods activated as before) and traveled through the area near Goldenglow Estate everything worked fine!With this I hope that anyone of you can help me with my little problem - it must have to do with my active mods, but not ONLY with them. It isn't game-breaking, but I think that everybody understands that I want my game CTD-free^^Greetings and thanks to anyone willing to help. WHICH HOUSE MODS did you activate again?
Please link them, i want to try that.I had a breezehome and proudspire manor mod, but they didn't 'clean' my place up. I actually would love to get rid of all the stuff stored in breezehome and proudspire manor.
Another bad thing is that i added stuff by using the console (player.placeatme.)that got placed in breezehome 'in between'. Now i hear it rambling and rumbling like it's still about to fall on the floor but stuck somewhere. Kind of like my breezehome is haunted.So if this won't help with my Goldenglow/Riften problem i have a tidy spook-free house again at least.
Comments are closed.
|
AuthorWrite something about yourself. No need to be fancy, just an overview. ArchivesCategories |